Workplace adjustments podcast

Roxanne Steel

Welcome everyone to the Diversity and Ability and NHS Employers Inclusive Conversations podcast. Today we are focusing on demystifying workplace adjustment. This is the first of two episodes on this topic.

In this episode, we will discuss and share insights on what workplace adjustments are, why they're important, the legal duty for employers, some of the barriers and also the benefits that workplace adjustments bring to both individuals and organisations. In our second episode, we will explore how disabled people request workplace adjustments, how organisations can implement centralised budgets, along with some of the barriers and benefits.

I'm Roxanne Steel, Accessibility and Inclusion Specialist Lead from D&A and with me is Lydia Warren from Barts Health NHS Trust and Angela Peake from North Staffordshire Combined Healthcare NHS Trust. Thank you for being with us and we hope you enjoy our inclusive conversation. 

I'm so excited to get stuck in, but before we do, thank you Lydia and Angela for being part of the conversation. Lydia, would you like to introduce yourself for those who may not know you? 

Lydia Warren

Yes, my name's Lydia Warren and I'm the Project Inclusion Officer for the Workforce Disability Equality Standard (WDES) at Barts Health NHS Trust. 

Roxanne Steel

Amazing. Is there anything you'd like to tell our listeners that they may not know? Maybe a fun fact? Maybe something you enjoy? 

Lydia Warren 

Yes, so I do have a disability, and it's called, it's a long word, arthrogryposis and I love my music as well, so yeah. 

Roxanne Steel

Amazing. And Angela, would you like to introduce yourself to our lovely listeners today? 

Angela Peake

Yes, thank you Roxanne. My name's Angela, it's Angela Peake. I developed the Differently Abled Buddy Scheme at North Staffordshire Combined Healthcare Trust. And I took this scheme, specifically for supporting new staff that came into the organisation that identified as having a disability and to support them within the first three to six months with joining them up with somebody that knew the organisation, that knew new stuff around the place and also then took it across the ICS and to Staffordshire Training Hub. So, it's been a fabulous project that I've been involved in.

I'm a nurse by background. I worked in oncology for 18 years and because of my kidney transplant, COVID changed my life. So, thank you for the invite today. 

Roxanne Steel

Thank you for being here. So, our topic today is workplace adjustments. And we are having this conversation to help you understand what workplace adjustments are and how you can help promote and create inclusive spaces. Why? We want everyone to thrive in the workplace and making workplace adjustments accessible for all is essential for that. 

So, let's start with the basics. What are workplace adjustments and an employer's legal duties? Under the Equality Act 2010, public sector organisations have to make changes in their approach or provision to ensure that services are accessible to disabled people, as well as everyone else. Workplace adjustments can mean alterations to buildings by providing lifts, wide doors, ramps and tactile signage. But this also may mean changes to policies, procedures and staff training to ensure that services work well for everyone. It's important to remember under the Equality Act, workplaces have a legal responsibility to provide reasonable adjustments. 

So, Lydia, with that in mind, over to you. What are workplace adjustments and what are the common examples of workplace adjustment applied at your organisation? 

Lydia Warren

So, the workplace adjustments for us and the common examples that we do have over our five sites are individuals who ask for different chairs, adjustable desks, headsets, monitors, and different software like for example, Dragon. Dragon is an assistive technology for those who are neurodiverse or visually impaired. So, this assists them with, like, reading the text on the page, assist with listening as well if they need to be able to listen to the text on the page. 

Also, we do disability awareness training as well, so that the managers are able to have that knowledge to help their colleagues. 

Roxanne Steel

Thank you. Thank you very much. Great shout out to a bit of assistive technology and ergonomic equipment there. I am an avid Dragon user myself, and it's really helped with my fatigue and productivity. 

Just pivoting a bit here and moving on to looking at, people can apply for workplace adjustments, but actually are there any barriers when applying for workplace adjustments? So, with that in mind, Angela, in your experience, what are some of the barriers that disabled employees face when applying for reasonable workplace adjustments? And even what can prevent them from requesting these? 

Angela Peake

I think initially, one of the biggest challenges is people don't quite understand that they live with a disability, that they sit under that umbrella of the Equality Act, that the organisations have a legal responsibility to support them within their workplace. People often live with conditions that they've had all their lives, so they just get on with it. And so when they come to an organisation, they've often been in a place where they've just dealt with what they've needed to do and they've worked around it and you learn the little tricks and tips for doing things. When they move to a new job, often that's when the challenges can happen. If you're taking that step up, if you may be dyslexic, you've had those skills that you've used all these years to ensure that you get the work done that you need to get done and you have your way of doing it. But when you step up and you change your roles, often that can be a really big challenge to people. So that's one of the biggest things is people don't actually know that they have a disability. 

Some people know they have a disability in their previous employments, have actually spoken to their employers about that. And they've been stigmatised for that, even discriminated against. And so when they come to a new employment, they just say, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. I'm not going to say anything, because if I do, then I'll have the same reaction again. So, I think it's really important that employees from the very beginning, from induction, in fact, really from the recruitment process should make it that people understand that if you do have a challenge, even if you don't have a diagnosis of a challenge, then if you've got something that you require supporting, ask for that support.

And I think the biggest fear for people is that they're going to be seen as being different. They won't fit in. And they have real reasons for that because that's often happened to them within their lives. Sometimes it's just too difficult. There is just too much to deal with, you know, Lydia was saying about having particular tech that you can use. Well, if it's not being used automatically within an organisation, you've then got to find the right people to get that sorted, who's going to pay for that. And so it becomes a challenge and sometimes managers don't quite understand their responsibilities. 

It's fabulous that Lydia's organisation, they do that training and organisations do that training, but they often don't remember that training until they need to use it. And then, you know, where do you find that information? So it's really important for organisations to be pushing it from the very beginning, but it can be really challenging because it pushes onto the individual all the time. It often, it comes back to the individual to have to do the work to get those workplace adjustments in place. And they can be very tiny things. They don't have to be, you know, knocking walls down to get access. 

They can be really small things in the way somebody's being communicated with, but then how do you communicate that out? And if the manager isn't leading that conversation because they don't know how that conversation can be led, that can be a real challenge for staff. 

They don't have to be new to the organisation, they may just move job. So, with the buddy scheme, we supported people that were moving job. It started at the first three to six months, but actually there was people that were coming to us that were saying, I really need some support because things have changed in a way, different manager, you know, new role that you've taken on. So, I think that's, that's important to understand there are challenges and if managers can take the lead and support individuals, then that just takes off a lot of pressure. 

Roxanne Steel

Thank you, Angela. From my own experience of the physically disabled person, for those who may not know, probably unlikely to know as we are podcasting. I am a person that utilised the wheelchair to remain independent both at work and at home. So, I always say to a certain degree, I'm in a place of privilege. I go into a workspace and whether I want to or not, there isn't any hiding my disability at all. I'm able to mask a certain level of support if I wanted to, but actually I'm the sort of person that manages kind of flag down and recognize as disabled. 

So, my conversations start pretty early, but actually, like you say, a lot of people don't realise that they are disabled. And I think that's because there's been a lot of stigma around what disability actually means. I think we look at it through the lens of the charity model, not saying charities are bad, but thinking about the influences of things like Children in Need and those adverts, where it's usually someone that's really unable, very visibly disabled, needs a lot of support. But actually, a lot of individuals may not even realise they're disabled until a barrier is removed. 

So, it's really important that we celebrate what we mean by disablement. We celebrate that term. We celebrate in organisations what we can do. We enable staff, like you say, those managers to understand and feel confident to have those conversations. Because like you say, the onus shouldn't be on me as an individual to know exactly what I need, where to go, and being expert in your organisation on day one. Of course, involve me in the conversation because I'm the expert on my own body and I will know what's worked for me before. 

But actually, for some people, it's about not saying even what workplace adjustments do you need, what disability do you face, what diagnosis do you have. Just sitting down and say, how can we help you? How can you best do your job? What do you need? Like you say, it's not always those sweeping changes of knocking down walls, popping in lifts. Obviously, I love a lift. I'm never going to say I don't love a lift, but actually, like you say, it's about the way we communicate. Does that long piece of information need to be an email? Can we voice note? Can we meet? That is an adjustment. Just discussing what we need and working as a team to understand what we need to work together is really important. And it takes away that fear of discrimination because it says, hello, we welcome this. We want the conversation and we're not scared and we're excited to have it. 

Angela Peake

I think that's really important. There's often a real fear, especially from a manager's perspective that they'll get things wrong. So, it's easier not to say anything. Whereas when I have a discussion with the manager, because I work with managers and employees as well. So, when you're having a discussion with a manager and they say, but I don't know anything about this condition. I don't know anything about that at all. And I just say to them, just ask, ask what they need. I said, sometimes they may not know what they need because it may be new to them. We're having a lot of people that are newly diagnosed ADHD, autism in later life. And so, they may not know what they need.

So, support them, work with them for them to draw out what their needs are to be the very best they can be for you. And it's amazing how much that just takes off. It manages just yeah, because they're thinking they've got to tell you what you need. You don't need to be told, you live it. 

Lydia Warren

I totally agree with what both of you just said. For me, I think it's about supporting those managers and giving them the understanding as well. And because it's like they're getting pressure from the top and the bottom, so they're like in the middle. So sometimes they may not have the time, then that comes off as being really discriminative. But, it's because they don't know. So, I think information is very, very important. 

Roxanne Steel

So, we will go on to talk about good reasons for applying, the benefits and how that can help. I really want to hear from you, Lydia. What would you say to someone who is feeling nervous about applying or discussing potential workplace adjustments?

Lydia Warren

So, I would like to say to them, please use your health passport. It helps with you having that conversation with your manager and you expressing what you need. There's loads of information out there. You've got Access to Work. You can apply to them as well. If they're feeling nervous, I'd say to them, I'll go through with them to go and sit with their manager and help them talk that through if they're nervous. Yeah. 

Roxanne Steel

So you're saying that you could be an advocate or someone could have an advocate with them to also have that conversation as well? 

Lydia Warren

That's right. Yes. To be that advocate. Yes. Like Angela said, a buddy with that person as well. 

Roxanne Steel

Amazing. So, there is a lot of support out there. You deserve that support and we encourage people to access that support. I think that is the main thing that I'm kind of taking away from that, which I think is absolutely amazing. And I want to talk around the word just for a second of deserving that support, because support and accessing support is a positive thing. It shouldn't be seen as like a failure or something that makes you unequal. Actually, it's providing equitable opportunities so that you can thrive as an employer and as an employee and as a team. And I heard that you mentioned Access to Work, which we will discuss in just a few moments. 

But what I want to do is we've talked about barriers and how people can be nervous, which is completely understandable. This is the real-world situation. We're having honest, inclusive conversations, but actually I want to look at it from a different lens and looking at the benefits and reasons for applying for a reasonable adjustment. 

So, Angela, this is where I come back to you with that, okay? If there are people experiencing barriers when they're applying for workplace or reasonable adjustments, why should employees ask for these reasonable adjustments? What are the benefits for the person and the whole team when someone does receive these adjustments? 

Angela Peake

Well, I think initially by making it known that you have a disability, then your organisation knows about you. So, if your organisation don't know about you, then they're not going to prioritise you. So, the more people that do say that they require this support, then the more priority your organisation will put onto that. But I think the biggest thing for me, especially in those first three to six months where you are starting a new job, for anybody it's really challenging to start a new role. The expectation on yourself as well as your expectations of colleagues. But if you get those adjustments and you get the support that you require, then being able to settle into a role or to do any of the roles that we do in our working days, which are vast and varied within healthcare. When you're able to do that, you can be the very best you can be. And, you know, so often within healthcare, the end point is the patient. They are the people that we do what we do for. Even if you're working in admin, you're working in admin to support the patient.

So, if you are being the very best you can be, the outcome is, it's that the patients get the very best support, they get better care, they get what they need. If you're supported, because those foundations are in place, it really helps with that sense of belonging within an organisation, even though each one of us are very different. Knowing that your organisation cares about you, and is willing to put those steps in place, whatever they may be, then just having that makes you feel so much more wanted, respected, and valued in your work. And you're more likely to stay. So, from a recruitment perspective, it is really, really important that organisations put these things in place because it means so much not only to the individual, it also means an awful lot to the organisation. 

And there's also that fear of often with disability, not always, but sometimes with disability, what comes with that is hospital appointments and excess things like that that a lot of other people may not be having. And if you're fearful of asking to go for a hospital appointment, then your health will deteriorate because that fear and concern and that anxiety often increases symptoms. So if you can be comfortable in asking for what you need and your organisation are really supportive in you receiving that, then generally you're just much more well and able to be well and less likely to be off sick. And less likely to go into work when you really shouldn't be there because you're afraid of, you know, the consequences of that. 

And generally, you know, we learn from each other, don't we? So if you are talking and asking for workplace adjustments, your colleagues are hearing those sorts of things and beginning to understand the challenges that people with disability have. Now that can sometimes be quite negative with individuals because it's, why can't I have that? If you've had it, why can't I have it? So that's what's really important for robust managers to understand why that is, why we do what we do. So, ultimately, we're much better at what we do. We're much more confident, settled, and that ripples into all our life if we get what we need from a workplace adjustment point of view. 

Roxanne Steel

Absolutely. Thank you again for such an in-depth and think really clear and emphatic response. I absolutely agree. Within my work as a specialist lead at D&A, lot of the conversations we have is it's not only the right thing to do legally, like we have to do it as employers, as service providers, but actually it makes good business sense.

Thank you, Angela and Lydia for participating in this inclusive conversation. And thank you to our listeners. We hope this podcast was helpful. Just a reminder, watch out for our second episode on this topic, which explores how disabled people ask for workplace adjustments, how organisations can implement a centralised budget, along with some of the barriers and benefits.

You can access further guidance and resources on this topic via the NHS Employers and Diversity and Ability websites.